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[Jeremy]

In the IRC chat earlier today, we discussed the storylines and quests in the demo and have come to several conclusions, though anyone can still put in some input.

I like the quests to have a fair amount of plot, instead of just a menial task

As we all know, our quests will involve a lot more than simple 'go fetching' and 'kill that group of monsters,' so that the player will feel more involved. We have already come up with many ideas that could help make the gameplay vary for every player, and make it unique.

First of all, in the demo, there will be several 'one off' quests that are tasks that are not linked to another quest that you do for a quick reward without having to go through a whole string of quests. There are also a few larger storyline quests that are thick with plot and that make the player feel involved and important. I will discuss these quests later on.

One of the things that will make Radakan unique is how the gameplay can change every time you play the game. The quests will reflect this. For instance, as an example that was discussed in the IRC, if you were asked by a shopkeeper NPC to bring him/her a bottle of milk, there are many options you have. You could go out and look for the milk which may involve simply finding it or buying it in a store, or even persuading someone to give you the milk. But, you could also do something like give the NPC a bottle of rat milk or something completely different. You might get away with it, but there is a chance that the NPC will know and he will not reward you or he will be angry. If you get away with giving him rat milk, his customers might get sick etc.

There are many things you could do in every quest. Another example: If you were asked to deliever something to an NPC, you could sell the item or give him a fake, or do both... Or you could just do the quest. This would lead to different situations, and it would be unique compared to most games where it is impossible to sell a quest item.

Another idea we had was that some quests would be timed. For instance, you might get a quest in which you have to steal an item from a museum before another group of thieves does. This puts a realistic pressure on the player, and would make sense. Also, we decided that the NPCs could give you false information. This is rarely ever seen in games and would change an entire scenario. For example, if an NPC is a part of the Black Hand and he asks you to go looking for something, but it turns out that that 'something' doesn't even exist and he used it as a distraction, etc...

Yet another quest idea was that the player could have quests where he is required to create or mix things. These things that he creates can end up completely different than he intended because he mixed the wrong two things. E.g: If a bartender asked the player to serve his customer a certain drink while he was gone, the player would be able to decide what to mix together. It might end up being something like a poison... Which would not turn out well for the customer or the bartender.

Now for the demo, we were considering about 8-10 houses, around 4-6 big quest chains (that cannot be finished in the demo) and several smaller 'once off' quests. Also, so that the player isn't just thrown into the game with no idea what to do, there will be one or two initial quests he is given at the beginning of the game. We came to one quest conclusion:

At the beginning of the game you or some other NPC is robbed by a thief who has been stealing from houses around Moldan for some time. Then a quest starts to find the thief. You will have to do 'detective work' to find him and complete several different quests. Then, when the thief is cornered at the end, you would be able to decide what to do: turn him in, kill him, make a deal with him, etc... But in the demo, it would be left without an ending.

As you can see, there has been a lot discussed about the quests and storylines! We are hoping to get the character really involved and have a good amount of plot.

[Sadr]

Good roundup DK Just making a mental not here of my own quest:
Fetch: Bottle of SOMETHING.
- Go look for Bottle of ANYTHING
- Bring back ANYTHING
 - Cause: Joy, Anger, Disease...

[EX_Machina]

So yeah, 4 - 6 quest storylines (You get 2 in the start and have to find the other 2 - 4). Each of them is a quest chain ranging from 3 - 7 quests. While they will not be 100% completable, they DO offer the player some kind of reward at the end.

E.g. You do quest 6 in a story, he rewards you then tells you to go to the upper levels to find MR A for more work (Journal will say QUEST NOT AVAILABLE IN DEMO) but you will of course be rewarded...

As DK was saying, we want to make the game interesting with plenty of CHOICE. Not just good and evil choices (Too generic) but many different kinds of choices. You can take the greedy choice and exploit someone, or you could take the sadistic choice and screw up someone's life or you could take the happy chappy choice and do what's best for everyone etc.


Here's a joke dialogue that I think would be funny at the end of the 'Catch the Thief' quest line. It could go more or less something like this...

Player: I've caught you thief! Now give back my stuff!
Thief: Caught me have you? You may have cornered me, but you cannot defeat me, the game will not allow it!!!
Player: What are you talking about?
Thief: This is just a demo you fool. The quests end here! In this world, I am invincible!
Player: NO!!! It can't be! I played all of these quests and now I can't kill you?
Thief: Don't be so hard on yourself boy, take this 'REWARD' and get out of my sight. See you in the full version

The player receives a reward, the quest storyline can still continue and the player is left wanting to play the end of the quest. Of course the dialogue is just a joke, but it would be funny to see it in a game

[Sadr]

Haha, cool idea EX If we decide that cinematics should be a part of our game (as suggested for discussion) this would be an ideal situation to do it. Seeing as the conversation would be completely linear, using a cinematic would justify that, instead of suddenly just stripping the player of its conversation options.

[Jeremy]

  That would be funny at the end of the game. I am still rooting for cinematics! But going back on topic, I can see how that would make the player want to see the end of the quest 

[Kell]

I'm new there... And I'm enthusiastic about this game when I read some info here and there.

The quest system is in my opinion one of the most important subjects in this game, and as I understand you want to make a quest-system different from the classical rpgs, something more involving, and more "role-play-like". And I love this idea.

So please, don't do a quest-system, the automated system that let the player talk quickly with a NPC standing in his shop. Just like if he had a yellow flashing ! over his head. When you use the word quest, you lose almost all the subtlety that a quest-system should had. If in a game the character you’re playing have a log where he notes, with an overkill precision, each detail in a very gameish way, like in some pretty good RPGs like Oblivion... And if you’re doing something like that, I'm afraid you’re falling in the clear side of the force... but you were trying to do a "dark side of the force" game, as I understand it. In my perfect RPG dream, "quests" exists just like they exist in our lives. I'm not asking to do something more "real" but something less conventional-game-like. I'm just asking for quests that didn't seem to fall from the sky, and would you all didn't prefer to do a game where all the world seem to exist by itself and not solely for you, the player.

Imagine that instead of asking you to do something, NPC Raber Filke, the grocer, when selling to you some smelly food evokes a vague rumor about a poor man bullied by troublemakers just down the street, almost every day. What a shame. Then nothing is written in your "log" except if you clicked the little button aside the conversation: "Take some notes about this". And you know anything more. If you talk with some other guys in the street they might say something about it also, and if you ask precisely about it, they might even answer you with some more information. If follow down the street, you may find a old beggar, but he would seem mute about it, or depending on the game, you'll not find anything, he may had simply fled yesterday, bad luck. You can also simply forget about it, 'cause you’re not superjusticeman. But if you stay some time near the beggar, when night fall, the troublemaker may show up... or may not. Everything changes from each time you play. If they come you can do everything that a regular RPG allows you to do in same situation. But know what... if you help the beggar you could win some useful information... or nothing... you could even angry him, because he didn't other pity him. And if you do nothing or help the troublemakers, you can receive some reward later in the game when you stumble on them one more time.

In other words :
1 - No automated questlog system, they make quest appear automatic reward machine, and quests just like some sort of points ("Duuude I already accomplished 36 quests and there are 4 going on!"). A quest log takes away the meaning of "quest", by showing you everything you had to do... Where is the quest, if when talking to a boy suddenly appears on your screen: "You receive a new quest: you have to do this and that". No man, quests have to be found! And if someone talks about a quest and you didn't see it, you didn't deserve this quest.

2 - No orders from a man your character never met, or mission ultra important and mega secret from the thieves guild to you filthy beggar. What I'm saying is that if no one in Moldan know you, then all you can do, is take your own decision, do your own quests, do what you think is a good thing to your character to do. Please no NPC who stumble upon you and ask you to get some object or to bring some object to someone. Indeed, no quest should have an object involved, at least not until your "something" in the game. And even... object-related quests, never appeared to me as something natural my characters would have done easily if they existed. Some object-related missions are ok, like "go steal that parchment from my enemy, apprentice, and then I'll forget you’re so dumb." Or "Hey man, you’re a good friend, thanks for "OTHER QUEST" and wow, if you hadn't helped me with those other bastards I would be eating flowers by the root now. +blabla conversation+ Know what... I have an idea. Remember that story about a great treasure that someone stole and had hidden in the area that Mrs Jabel was talking about... Well, I know where it is... but I can't go alone... If you come with me we can share it, two parts for me, and one part for you +blabla explaining the plan+ it is jewel, a red flashing gem with some green dots all over it + blabla +"

3 - And last, my two old friends: Freedom and Random.
As Ex_Machina already said in this thread, the quests should not be coded as something YOU MUST DO, but events that fire up. If you only did some actions, then only some events fire up, if you wish to do something that would not let you to complete the quest, free to you... or better if you wish to do something that fool the quest... better !
But more important: The random, quest may have a starter event... or not. Quests may be only working half the way in one game, and then when you start a new game, you could do it entirely, but another you did last time has no starter event, but hey, one of the middle events could be working. (This is the complicated part, and the events which are randomized (not all of them) have to be well planned)

4 - Human relationship! What the character do influence his relationship with the surroundings. In the help-the-beggar "quest" if you help the beggar, you may not gain anything... but you may gain one "reputation/relation/anything" point with those who are concerned by the matter.
Example: In the beggar's street, 8 NPCs gave attention to the beggar-troublemaker story, from those 6 felt pitiful about the beggar situation. And 2 hopped that with that this filthy beggar would go away. Somewhere in the game, a (secret) variable will change if you help the beggar, or help the troublemakers. The grocer, who feels very concerned about that poor beggar would have say a +4 in the "What he thinks of you" variable, and the Old Mrs Jabel, who hate that beggar would get a -4. And the sweet Fanchon, a young lady, who had seen one time the beggar be bullied, would get a +1 etc. Each quest will have some people linked, and your act influences these people. (And you have a medium ranking, made of what each NPC in the game think of you, balanced by their influence. If the Old Mrs Jabel, Chief Gossiper of the Falow Street dislikes you it will have more importance than if Fanchon, a prostitute no one cares about, love you. But it would be less important than the opinion of the Mayor, who remembers that you were the one who reported the hiding-place of Konrad the Gruesome.

Damn, I'm sure it's not clear at all... and my terribly bad English grammar and orthography are not helping...


EDIT :
I just forgot about something important: No Immediate Rewards! It's one of the greatest problems I see in the actual games quest systems, when you end a quest it is clearly stated: You get a reward. I think if sometimes reward may come, it would be a great and beautiful world if rewards are rare, exceptions. The normal would be no rewards, except if you get a job (and I think job-quests are not very intersting, except for MMORPGs). The reward is the human relationship evolution.

EDIT 2 : Damned.... I just discovered that almost all I said was already said in some quest threads... Fuck next time I’ll read all the threads instead of reading only few of them.. sorry....

[Momoko_Fan]

I see what you mean, and we took a great care to make sure it doesn't happen. Especially in MMORPGs you clearly get an indication that you got a quest, a step-by-step instruction manual of what to do to complete it, outline of the potential rewards received, all displayed in a very nice interface with icons and all- it's no longer a quest but just an assignment to do so that you get stronger..

Please understand that we are using the word quest-system mainly as a technical term (not something that would be mentioned in-game) to describe our plan-of-action as to how we, as the developers of this game, would design quests in Radakan.
I assure you that we would refrain as much as possible from even mentioning the word "quest" in game, it would just be a favor asked by an NPC which you may want or not want to do.

Although I agree that quests should be more human-like, I think that the player character should always note down about potential quests, and also just things that an NPC says that could become important later on. This way you can't really forget about things which could be necessary to make progress in the game (you wouldn't want to be stuck because you forgot what the password to the underground arena was.. being the forgetful human that you are). Certainly, in contrast to MMOs and some other games, there wouldn't be icons and an outline, rather, it would be in the player's words ("I saw this guy and he said the red turtles in the lake ran out of food..").
Another thing we discussed was to give the player several ways to complete a quest, some of which might be deceiving the NPC that you actually did what he asked, in the same way, the NPC can deceive you with the information he provides you with the quest. Perhaps if your deception-detection stat was large enough the player character could notice the deception and write it down in his journal, while you, being the sincere man that you are would not notice it...

[Sadr]

Thank you very much for your feedback Kell! I don't expect you to read through our meeting long (top of the thread), but if you had, you'd see that what you brought up here was pretty much exactly one of the topics we came to discuss, and you should also come to find that our conclusions should be quite to your liking

Seeing the features you've listed here are to become our main attraction once the game reaches its higher stages, this is something we've thuroughly discussed on multiple ocations, and every time we feel like we're getting closer to the faint idea we started out with, that is to form a true sandbox RPG. I think MomokoFan said everything else that needed saying. I'd just like to second what he said regarding gameplay/roleplay: Even though no normal person will be standing taking notes during every conversation he takes part in, this will simply be necessary in order to take that load off the player, even if it's not that realistic. However, we might split it up into the events when the player automatically takes notes, and the less important ones where the player can choose whether or not to do it (note would still be 'written' by the game itself though).

And welcome to our forum Kell, I hope you'll enjoy your stay

[EX_Machina]

So please, don't do a quest-system, the automated system that let the player talk quickly with a NPC standing in his shop. Just like if he had a yellow flashing ! over his head. When you use the word quest, you lose almost all the subtlety that a quest-system should had. If in a game the character you’re playing have a log where he notes, with an overkill precision, each detail in a very gameish way, like in some pretty good RPGs like Oblivion... And if you’re doing something like that, I'm afraid you’re falling in the clear side of the force... but you were trying to do a "dark side of the force" game, as I understand it. In my perfect RPG dream, "quests" exists just like they exist in our lives. I'm not asking to do something more "real" but something less conventional-game-like. I'm just asking for quests that didn't seem to fall from the sky, and would you all didn't prefer to do a game where all the world seem to exist by itself and not solely for you, the player.

Very valid point. In Oblivion anyone can do the quests, it doesn't take any logic or creativity. You go where they tell you to and do exactly as it says. We want to involve a lot of CHOICE and player interaction. I was thinking that if someone tells you to fetch him a sword, you can get him ANY kind of sword with different results each time rather than going to Shop A to fetch Sword B which is the only sword in the whole damn world that the Man wants....

Also the quest subtlety. I agree very much. Its lame if someone is standing around in a bar all day waiting to give a complete stranger the task of saving his family. So in one of our older meetings, we had a trust and disposition meter with each NPC. Certain quests will only be available when the person trusts you enough and you only get Quests when certain things happen. You don't go over to 'Quest Man' to get a quest. Each one is different. So maybe someone gives you some gossip (Which adds a quest) or you rob someone blind (And it adds a quest about his evil rich family coming to kill you) or you buy an item that someone else wanted (And he tries to buy it from you) and so on and so forth

Imagine that instead of asking you to do something, NPC Raber Filke, the grocer, when selling to you some smelly food evokes a vague rumor about a poor man bullied by troublemakers just down the street, almost every day. What a shame. Then nothing is written in your "log" except if you clicked the little button aside the conversation: "Take some notes about this". And you know anything more. If you talk with some other guys in the street they might say something about it also, and if you ask precisely about it, they might even answer you with some more information. If follow down the street, you may find a old beggar, but he would seem mute about it, or depending on the game, you'll not find anything, he may had simply fled yesterday, bad luck. You can also simply forget about it, 'cause you’re not superjusticeman. But if you stay some time near the beggar, when night fall, the troublemaker may show up... or may not. Everything changes from each time you play. If they come you can do everything that a regular RPG allows you to do in same situation. But know what... if you help the beggar you could win some useful information... or nothing... you could even angry him, because he didn't other pity him. And if you do nothing or help the troublemakers, you can receive some reward later in the game when you stumble on them one more time.

Good idea. Its also what we had in mind. There are multiple ways to get the same quest and also multiple ways to end it. I don't think we should have too many variables though as it would make it hard for the player to track down people. Also I like the way you want it to end. You help him and he gets upset with you for pitying him. I really like the fact that not every quest you do rewards you. It will be really realistic to go through a lot of trouble and then he tells you that he didn't want your help or that he has no reward to offer you.

1 - No automated questlog system, they make quest appear automatic reward machine, and quests just like some sort of points ("Duuude I already accomplished 36 quests and there are 4 going on!"). A quest log takes away the meaning of "quest", by showing you everything you had to do... Where is the quest, if when talking to a boy suddenly appears on your screen: "You receive a new quest: you have to do this and that". No man, quests have to be found! And if someone talks about a quest and you didn't see it, you didn't deserve this quest.

I slightly disagree. There SHOULD be a quest log system that tracks all quests you are busy with. It would be a real pain in the ass to remember 10000 different stories at the same time. But the quest log should be vague. It should not make the game too easy. For example it should say
"John has asked me to fetch his wallet. He thinks he left it at his house" rather than "John has asked me to fetch his wallet. He left it 4.23 mm left of his table, perpendicular to his fridge. Its location is on my map."

The Quest Log system is going to be like a true journal. Like something that you yourself would write.
E.g.
"I spoke to Sadr about my playingthegame.doc. He was extremely upset because I copied DeathKnight's one and changed the character's names. If I want his help, I'm going to have to make it up to him"

In this way, the player knows what he has to do, but not HOW he has to do it. It's exactly like a journal and it makes the quests more involved rather than automated

2 - No orders from a man your character never met, or mission ultra important and mega secret from the thieves guild to you filthy beggar. What I'm saying is that if no one in Moldan know you, then all you can do, is take your own decision, do your own quests, do what you think is a good thing to your character to do. Please no NPC who stumble upon you and ask you to get some object or to bring some object to someone.

I couldn't agree more. It makes me sick that some random person you bump into will tell you (A complete stranger) to fetch his very important document which could affect the world forever. Its like he's a friggen cripple that can't walk to his own house to fetch his document. Quests should be realistic, so I'm pretty sure that we will have NO 'errand boy' quests.

Indeed, no quest should have an object involved, at least not until your "something" in the game. And even... object-related quests, never appeared to me as something natural my characters would have done easily if they existed. Some object-related missions are ok, like "go steal that parchment from my enemy, apprentice, and then I'll forget you’re so dumb." Or "Hey man, you’re a good friend, thanks for "OTHER QUEST" and wow, if you hadn't helped me with those other bastards I would be eating flowers by the root now. +blabla conversation+ Know what... I have an idea. Remember that story about a great treasure that someone stole and had hidden in the area that Mrs Jabel was talking about... Well, I know where it is... but I can't go alone... If you come with me we can share it, two parts for me, and one part for you +blabla explaining the plan+ it is jewel, a red flashing gem with some green dots all over it + blabla +"

Exactly. That makes it more realistic. Also I like your idea bout people going with you. Every RPG you have to do everything solo. No one wants to help you. It would be fun to join a squad of fighters or do something with a person or two.

3 - And last, my two old friends: Freedom and Random.
As Ex_Machina already said in this thread, the quests should not be coded as something YOU MUST DO, but events that fire up. If you only did some actions, then only some events fire up, if you wish to do something that would not let you to complete the quest, free to you... or better if you wish to do something that fool the quest... better !
But more important: The random, quest may have a starter event... or not. Quests may be only working half the way in one game, and then when you start a new game, you could do it entirely, but another you did last time has no starter event, but hey, one of the middle events could be working. (This is the complicated part, and the events which are randomized (not all of them) have to be well planned)

Agreed and disagreed. I don't think that we should have random starting places for quests. We want them to do the whole thing (Don't we?) rather than just a small bit. But yes, they SHOULD have different NPCs. So you can get the same quest from 5 different people, all who will make it progress differently (And you can swap sides). For example, five people hate each other and want each other dead. You can speak to any of them to get the same quest, but all that happens is up to you.

Also I think, that one quest SHOULD influence the next quest. A weak example is as follows: You do a quest for Tinus which makes Momoko upset with you. When Janne tells you to fetch his weed from Momoko, he will refuse to give it to you because he doesn't like you. You can either tell Janne or kill Momoko. Telling Janne will make him think you're useless and he will terminate the quest saying that he can get someone else to do it

4 - Human relationship! What the character do influence his relationship with the surroundings. In the help-the-beggar "quest" if you help the beggar, you may not gain anything... but you may gain one "reputation/relation/anything" point with those who are concerned by the matter.

I like your idea of varying rewards and how some quests can give nothing or negative things. I think we should come up with a 'reward system' that will make it more interesting. For example, if Sadr tells you steal the JMonkeyEngine from Momoko but you kill him instead and take it off his corpse, Sadr will refuse to take the Engine and will hate you for killing his friend (Who he only wanted to steal from). Or maybe you Momoko, causing him to like you, but Sadr to be upset with you (No rewards here)...

[Jeremy]

I completely agree with you, Kell... And nice examples by the way, EX 
Now... About the quest thing. I think that when you are obviously given a quest. For example, if an NPC who trusts you because you have met him before asks you to run an errand and it is obviously something that he wants you to do, the journal should mark it down. However, if you are talking to an innkeeper and he is chatting and telling you rumours and there is a subtle hint that there might be a quest you can do, but it is not obvious, the journal should not mark it down and you should have to go and explore this rumour to see where it leads. After all, you would mark down in the journal a task you are supposed to do, but you probably wouldn't mark down a rumour you just heard. It makes it interesting because the player can do some sleuthing work to find out what the innkeeper was talking about if he wants to.

I agree that there should not be a big exclamation mark or something obvious over NPCs with quests. Quests should either be something that an NPC casually mentions in conversation or something that an NPC you know well decides to ask you to do as a favour because he trusts you. There are certainly more situations, but that is the basic idea. So you talk to the NPCs (some may shoo you away at the beginning if you do not know them at all just like in real life) to find 'quests' and you don't simply go up to the guy with the big yellow exclamation mark.

I think that, like real life, there would be certain NPCs who would talk to you if they didn't know you (such as people in bars, or another 'social' place, or innkeepers or shopkeepers) but there would be a large majority who would just be creeped out if you came up and started talking to them unless you did something that made them respect or admire you.

I completely agree with you about the surreality of everyone just asking a stranger to save their family or get them a jewel that their life depends on. I, for one, wouldn't trust or ask someone I don't know to do something that is important to my life. 

It is great to see that you are on the same page as the rest of us, Kell!

[Sadr]

What we're gonna have to do now in the demo though is probably that we're gonna "pretend" like several systems are already in place, like the reputation-system (which I don't think will be in a usable state in that time, but do by all means enlighten me if that's not the case). What we do then is that we decide beforehand which people like you and know you well, and who doesn't. This would of course be the case in with the actual reputation-system as well (close family for instance would already trust you) but in this case I don't think we can hope to have as dynamic characters as we'd like at such an early level.

[EX_Machina]

What we're gonna have to do now in the demo though is probably that we're gonna "pretend" like several systems are already in place, like the reputation-system (which I don't think will be in a usable state in that time, but do by all means enlighten me if that's not the case). What we do then is that we decide beforehand which people like you and know you well, and who doesn't. This would of course be the case in with the actual reputation-system as well (close family for instance would already trust you) but in this case I don't think we can hope to have as dynamic characters as we'd like at such an early level.

Since there aren't that many quests we can use simple trigger system to fake it.

E.g. You kill Quest Man A because he won't pay you the bonus he promised so certain other NPCs will refuse to talk to you or run away.

Or something like that... we won't get mixed up because there's not that much content and we can just add a few instances that requires the reputation system...

[Jeremy]

Yeah, and at this stage, there aren't as many things you can do to influence your reputation anyways so it will be easier to 'fake.' Of course, like EX said, there are certain things that we can make look like a full reputation system by simply setting conditions once you do a certain quest or action, etc.

[kangaroo]

I saw a word "journal" here somewhere...

There was one awesome idea in the Morrowind forums that the player should write notes himself in an empty journal, instead of the computer adding pre-written messages when an event occurs. Of course, provided you have an ink (or whatever else) bottle, and an empty book.

Offtopic: I think we should provide a way for the player to earn money without just doing quests or killing random enemies. Something like going to gather plants and brewing potions from them. Or smithing weapons, tools, etc. That all could be necessary because the player would have to feed himself thrice a day or more. And sleep. Sometimes it bothers me if a hero in a game can stay awake for several weeks and kill without a tiny bit of efficiency loss.

My 2 cents.

[Jeremy]

I saw a word "journal" here somewhere...

There was one awesome idea in the Morrowind forums that the player should write notes himself in an empty journal, instead of the computer adding pre-written messages when an event occurs. Of course, provided you have an ink (or whatever else) bottle, and an empty book.

That is basically one of the ideas I had earlier, that the player could write in his/her own notebook. However, most people decided against it, I believe.

Offtopic: I think we should provide a way for the player to earn money without just doing quests or killing random enemies. Something like going to gather plants and brewing potions from them. Or smithing weapons, tools, etc. That all could be necessary because the player would have to feed himself thrice a day or more. And sleep. Sometimes it bothers me if a hero in a game can stay awake for several weeks and kill without a tiny bit of efficiency loss.

My 2 cents.

In my "Playing the Game" Document, there was brewing, but I don't think other things such as blacksmithing or having to eat food to survive came up. Also, the sleep thing is something we will have to think about in design. If we decide that the player will have to sleep sometime, we will need some sort of 'penalty' for staying awake too long, if you know what I mean. Then, of course, we would have to make sure that the player could sleep at any time and not just at night, because there are certain things and quests the player can only do at night, or he/she might want to explore at night. I suppose that would be easy to get around if we had a 'sleep' option at the Inn, and the player could choose it at any time and it would only take up a few game hours, so that the player could still explore at night.... Well, I am not saying I am for or against sleep. I, personally, don't mind it, but let's see how everyone else feels about it, and the blacksmithing/trades for that matter.